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Anonymous said: I am on the feanorians side of the silmaril debate and do see Dior and elwing as thieves. And I hope you dont see this as an attack i just want to explain my reasoning for the way i see it. But to me at least the stealing of the ships is an entirely seperate thing that happened, I know it happened because the silmarils got stolen in the first place. But it has nothing to do with the Dior and elwing part of the silmaril story. And thats why I dont bring up the stealing of the ships when talking about this
And I feel like Dior and elwing are thieves because they have the feanorians most treasured family heirloom and are refusing to give it back to them. And I think calling them thieves isnt exactly right because they didnt steal it from the feanorians and luthien and beren didnt either but it is wrong of them to not give it back. And the feanorians did first write letters asking to be given the silmaril back. The feanorians were wrong in kinslaying to try and get it back, but I do understand how they got to the conclusion to do so. They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever, so they really do have this need of getting it back even without considering the fact that its rightfully theirs to begin with.
As for for Dior and elwings part in this, I have more understanding for Dior than elwing. Dior is a new king and not well known to his people. And the silmaril to him represent a great deed done by his parents and their love for each other and I wouldnt be suprised if the silmaril was starting to become as important to Dior and his people as it was to the feanorians. So him not giving it away makes sense it has personal importance to him and giving it away could mark him as a weak king which is not something he needs. And it is also the fact that we dont know how much he knows about the feanorians oath and what it means he may know nothing at all about it.
Elwing on the other hand is completely different, I do not understand why she does the things she does at all. I will just be discussing the lead up to the kinslaying and not what happens during it, because I have read posts saying that her mental health may have crumbled during it and I do concede they have a point. But that doesnt explain any of the lead up to it. The feanorians ask for the silmaril and she tells them no and its like doesnt she realize that just like last time this can lead to a kinslaying, like does the thought even enter her mind and I dont understand how she could not see it as the likely outcome bu then she doesnt prepare for the eventuality at all. Its so puzzling to me, shes the leader and responible for the safety of everyone there but she doesnt seem to care about it. She doesnt even send her sons to cirdan were they would be safe from the feanorians. For elwing this has all happened before and she does nothing to change what will happen and it doesnt make sense.
So yea im on the feanorians side in this because the silmaril is rightfully theirs and while they did bad bad things to get them back i understand where they are coming from. Something i dont understand with elwing.
I said:
Hey anon, I definitely don’t see this as an attack; I do appreciate your reasonable tone here.
If you’re interested in other more detailed explorations of Elwing and her motivations, definitely check out my Elwing meta tag, because others on on tumblr have done some great work there.
The point I think the other anon was making about the swan ships is that fans can be very quick to condemn Luthien and her descendants as “thieves” of the Silmarils, but say nothing about the Feanorians’ theft of the swan ships. No, the events aren’t related, but one is a much clearer-cut case of theft than the other, yet it’s the one that’s swept under the rug to attack those who stand in opposition to the sons of Feanor (SoF). But you’re right, it’s not relevant to discussing Dior and Elwing in relation to the SoF.
Luthien and Beren, at great personal risk, obtained a Silmaril from Morgoth. I think it’s relevant to note that at this point, the SoF appeared to have no problem with Luthien having possession of the Silmaril. In fact, Maedhros takes heart from their success and by it is inspired to begin his efforts which culminate in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
First, let’s recall Luthien’s history with the Feanorians at the point that she and Beren depart Doriath after Beren is restored to life:( Read more... )
Not sure if you found any of this convincing, but I hope it’s something to consider at least!
Anonymous said: I am on the feanorians side of the silmaril debate and do see Dior and elwing as thieves. And I hope you dont see this as an attack i just want to explain my reasoning for the way i see it. But to me at least the stealing of the ships is an entirely seperate thing that happened, I know it happened because the silmarils got stolen in the first place. But it has nothing to do with the Dior and elwing part of the silmaril story. And thats why I dont bring up the stealing of the ships when talking about this
And I feel like Dior and elwing are thieves because they have the feanorians most treasured family heirloom and are refusing to give it back to them. And I think calling them thieves isnt exactly right because they didnt steal it from the feanorians and luthien and beren didnt either but it is wrong of them to not give it back. And the feanorians did first write letters asking to be given the silmaril back. The feanorians were wrong in kinslaying to try and get it back, but I do understand how they got to the conclusion to do so. They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever, so they really do have this need of getting it back even without considering the fact that its rightfully theirs to begin with.
As for for Dior and elwings part in this, I have more understanding for Dior than elwing. Dior is a new king and not well known to his people. And the silmaril to him represent a great deed done by his parents and their love for each other and I wouldnt be suprised if the silmaril was starting to become as important to Dior and his people as it was to the feanorians. So him not giving it away makes sense it has personal importance to him and giving it away could mark him as a weak king which is not something he needs. And it is also the fact that we dont know how much he knows about the feanorians oath and what it means he may know nothing at all about it.
Elwing on the other hand is completely different, I do not understand why she does the things she does at all. I will just be discussing the lead up to the kinslaying and not what happens during it, because I have read posts saying that her mental health may have crumbled during it and I do concede they have a point. But that doesnt explain any of the lead up to it. The feanorians ask for the silmaril and she tells them no and its like doesnt she realize that just like last time this can lead to a kinslaying, like does the thought even enter her mind and I dont understand how she could not see it as the likely outcome bu then she doesnt prepare for the eventuality at all. Its so puzzling to me, shes the leader and responible for the safety of everyone there but she doesnt seem to care about it. She doesnt even send her sons to cirdan were they would be safe from the feanorians. For elwing this has all happened before and she does nothing to change what will happen and it doesnt make sense.
So yea im on the feanorians side in this because the silmaril is rightfully theirs and while they did bad bad things to get them back i understand where they are coming from. Something i dont understand with elwing.
I said:
Hey anon, I definitely don’t see this as an attack; I do appreciate your reasonable tone here.
If you’re interested in other more detailed explorations of Elwing and her motivations, definitely check out my Elwing meta tag, because others on on tumblr have done some great work there.
The point I think the other anon was making about the swan ships is that fans can be very quick to condemn Luthien and her descendants as “thieves” of the Silmarils, but say nothing about the Feanorians’ theft of the swan ships. No, the events aren’t related, but one is a much clearer-cut case of theft than the other, yet it’s the one that’s swept under the rug to attack those who stand in opposition to the sons of Feanor (SoF). But you’re right, it’s not relevant to discussing Dior and Elwing in relation to the SoF.
Luthien and Beren, at great personal risk, obtained a Silmaril from Morgoth. I think it’s relevant to note that at this point, the SoF appeared to have no problem with Luthien having possession of the Silmaril. In fact, Maedhros takes heart from their success and by it is inspired to begin his efforts which culminate in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
First, let’s recall Luthien’s history with the Feanorians at the point that she and Beren depart Doriath after Beren is restored to life:( Read more... )
Not sure if you found any of this convincing, but I hope it’s something to consider at least!
