Celebrimbor & family
Mar. 18th, 2024 02:20 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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Anonymous said: I'm glad they (or you did in the tags?) mentioned Maedhros because given Celebrimbors actions toward his uncle and father and later his actions at the fall of his city, I'm pretty sure Maedhros is the last person he would want to see or want for comfort (it seemed there was a general consensus that Celebrimbor would look for him of all people for comfort or something, which is weird for me because like @undercat-overdog said, most people don't rate their uncles as the most important people and he hasn't seen them for thousand years and when he did hear of them, it's the news of them committing the second and third kinslaying). I also subscribe to @aipilosse's headcanon about the feanorian brothers not being that close hence why Celebrimbor can easily ignore them because the relationship wasn't that deep to begin with. I fervently agree with you about Finrod most likely the family he would immediately live with after rebirth. Honestly, I headcanon him living with Finrod and Finarfin because I feel like that's the house where Celebrimbor would be able to heal (I subscribe to Finarfin being the best father and grandfather out of the three, sue me.). And even if Celebrimbor did start speaking with his father and uncles (and grandparents) the relationship wouldn't be the same anymore, like he's polite but there's no warmth or fluffiness or tearful reunion or something, it's not there anymore.
What do you think of him and Elwing bonding over the trauma of getting screwed over and losing their city and people to a bunch of assholes?
I said: With FULL WARNING that everything following is pure headcanon, since we don't actually get anything in canon on how Celebrimbor feels about his family (except that eventually he found them so morally repugnant he no longer wanted to associate with them), I think we're a lot in agreement here, anon.
AFTER Celebrimbor has already sided with Orodreth and left behind his family, THEN we have the attempted murder of Beren and Luthien by Celegorm and Curufin, the failure of Maedhros to address their actions in any way, the Second Kinslaying, the particularly cruel way Elured and Elurin were killed, the Third Kinslaying, the kidnapping of Elrond and Elros who were then held onto for an unknown number of years, the slaying of Eonwe's guard and the theft of the Silmarils AFTER everyone else had put their whole heart into defeating Melkor.
Like, they got SO much worse after Celebrimbor had already had enough. I imagine the amount of horror and revulsion he feels towards them and the things they did are quite high. And Maedhros, the guy who was head honcho for ALL of these things--Celebrimbor is supposed to get comfort from HIM? This guy? Nah man.
Celebrimbor died in agony and torment trying to prevent more death and bloodshed as a result of his creations. Maedhros decided slaughtering a bunch of other Elves was the best way to get what he wanted. I'm really not sure what they have to say to each other at this point.
We don't know anything about Celebrimbor's maternal family (although @swanmaids has seduced me on the idea of Curufin's wife going along with the rebellion of the Noldor and going with the Feanorians to Middle-earth) but even on the extended paternal branch of his family there are other people who have experience with torture, even torture by Sauron or Melkor! Maedhros is FAR from the only person with this experience!
Finrod would be my #1 choice because he, like Celebrimbor, was tortured by Sauron for information, and because I like to imagine they were somewhat close in Nargothrond, and that contributed to Celebrimbor being so disturbed by the way Celegorm and Curufin treated Finrod. (This is a fun fic about Finrod helping Celebrimbor through rebirth.)
There's Finduilas, who's captured and killed by Orcs; there's Celebrian, who's captured and put to torment; there's Orodreth who was killed by Glaurung; there's Aredhel who dies of slow poison thanks to her husband...and there are probably plenty of Celebrimbor's other friends and acquaintances and neighbors who have similar experiences and whom he can sympathize with. Even Nerdanel is likely to be a much better choice, since she at least never partook in any of that. He has options.
And I agree, IF he had interactions with his father and uncles again, it would be a very different relationship from what it might have been before. I can easily see him deciding he simply doesn't want them in his life anymore at all, full no-contact (as much as that's possible in Tirion).
As for Elwing, I think it would take her a while to come around to Celebrimbor just because he IS a Feanorian and I don't think she's especially inclined to give any of them the benefit of the doubt, not least one who created Sauron's rings of power ^.^;;; I'm also not sure how welcome he'd be around where she lives since iirc her tower is in or around Teler territory and you know, Alqualonde and all. But it's possible he wins her over. Kirta does a really interesting fic where Celebrimbor and Elwing meet before the attack on Sirion.
I also think it's fun when he gets to chat with Frodo.
ANYWAY long story long...I can zero percent see Celebrimbor seeking comfort from Maedhros, and honestly, it would be INCREDIBLY audacious (derogatory) for Maedhros to assume Celebrimbor would WANT comfort or support from him at this point.
Anonymous said: I'm glad they (or you did in the tags?) mentioned Maedhros because given Celebrimbors actions toward his uncle and father and later his actions at the fall of his city, I'm pretty sure Maedhros is the last person he would want to see or want for comfort (it seemed there was a general consensus that Celebrimbor would look for him of all people for comfort or something, which is weird for me because like @undercat-overdog said, most people don't rate their uncles as the most important people and he hasn't seen them for thousand years and when he did hear of them, it's the news of them committing the second and third kinslaying). I also subscribe to @aipilosse's headcanon about the feanorian brothers not being that close hence why Celebrimbor can easily ignore them because the relationship wasn't that deep to begin with. I fervently agree with you about Finrod most likely the family he would immediately live with after rebirth. Honestly, I headcanon him living with Finrod and Finarfin because I feel like that's the house where Celebrimbor would be able to heal (I subscribe to Finarfin being the best father and grandfather out of the three, sue me.). And even if Celebrimbor did start speaking with his father and uncles (and grandparents) the relationship wouldn't be the same anymore, like he's polite but there's no warmth or fluffiness or tearful reunion or something, it's not there anymore.
What do you think of him and Elwing bonding over the trauma of getting screwed over and losing their city and people to a bunch of assholes?
I said: With FULL WARNING that everything following is pure headcanon, since we don't actually get anything in canon on how Celebrimbor feels about his family (except that eventually he found them so morally repugnant he no longer wanted to associate with them), I think we're a lot in agreement here, anon.
I'm not opposed to Celebrimbor having originally been close with his uncles--every family is different and sure, it could be that his paternal uncles took a particular interest in his life. I DO think he was very close with Celegorm, if only because Celegorm was such a presence in his life, particularly in Middle-earth. However, I don't personally see him as super close with his other uncles (However, Lady_Gavroche has an excellent fic about his relationship with Caranthir that's a lot of fun!) I don't think Maedhros and Maglor were very fond of children as younger adults (Maedhros makes something of an exception for his brothers; Maglor does not), so I don't envision them taking much of a role with Celebrimbor.
However, with or without the premise that he was originally close at all with Maedhros, I WILL stand by that I don't think he wants anything to do with Maedhros after his death.
AFTER Celebrimbor has already sided with Orodreth and left behind his family, THEN we have the attempted murder of Beren and Luthien by Celegorm and Curufin, the failure of Maedhros to address their actions in any way, the Second Kinslaying, the particularly cruel way Elured and Elurin were killed, the Third Kinslaying, the kidnapping of Elrond and Elros who were then held onto for an unknown number of years, the slaying of Eonwe's guard and the theft of the Silmarils AFTER everyone else had put their whole heart into defeating Melkor.
Like, they got SO much worse after Celebrimbor had already had enough. I imagine the amount of horror and revulsion he feels towards them and the things they did are quite high. And Maedhros, the guy who was head honcho for ALL of these things--Celebrimbor is supposed to get comfort from HIM? This guy? Nah man.
Celebrimbor died in agony and torment trying to prevent more death and bloodshed as a result of his creations. Maedhros decided slaughtering a bunch of other Elves was the best way to get what he wanted. I'm really not sure what they have to say to each other at this point.
We don't know anything about Celebrimbor's maternal family (although @swanmaids has seduced me on the idea of Curufin's wife going along with the rebellion of the Noldor and going with the Feanorians to Middle-earth) but even on the extended paternal branch of his family there are other people who have experience with torture, even torture by Sauron or Melkor! Maedhros is FAR from the only person with this experience!
Finrod would be my #1 choice because he, like Celebrimbor, was tortured by Sauron for information, and because I like to imagine they were somewhat close in Nargothrond, and that contributed to Celebrimbor being so disturbed by the way Celegorm and Curufin treated Finrod. (This is a fun fic about Finrod helping Celebrimbor through rebirth.)
There's Finduilas, who's captured and killed by Orcs; there's Celebrian, who's captured and put to torment; there's Orodreth who was killed by Glaurung; there's Aredhel who dies of slow poison thanks to her husband...and there are probably plenty of Celebrimbor's other friends and acquaintances and neighbors who have similar experiences and whom he can sympathize with. Even Nerdanel is likely to be a much better choice, since she at least never partook in any of that. He has options.
And I agree, IF he had interactions with his father and uncles again, it would be a very different relationship from what it might have been before. I can easily see him deciding he simply doesn't want them in his life anymore at all, full no-contact (as much as that's possible in Tirion).
As for Elwing, I think it would take her a while to come around to Celebrimbor just because he IS a Feanorian and I don't think she's especially inclined to give any of them the benefit of the doubt, not least one who created Sauron's rings of power ^.^;;; I'm also not sure how welcome he'd be around where she lives since iirc her tower is in or around Teler territory and you know, Alqualonde and all. But it's possible he wins her over. Kirta does a really interesting fic where Celebrimbor and Elwing meet before the attack on Sirion.
I also think it's fun when he gets to chat with Frodo.
ANYWAY long story long...I can zero percent see Celebrimbor seeking comfort from Maedhros, and honestly, it would be INCREDIBLY audacious (derogatory) for Maedhros to assume Celebrimbor would WANT comfort or support from him at this point.
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Date: 2024-03-19 12:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2024-03-19 01:51 am (UTC)